Jeanette (Jan) Petrie produced an award-winning documentary on Mother Teresa and project director for Mother Teresa: Love in Action. Shot on the run over a period of 5 years in 10 countries on 4 continents, this award winning film follows Mother Teresa into the world’s most troubled spots. From the war in Beirut to Guatemala under siege, from the devastated streets of Calcutta to the ghettoes of the South Bronx, the film is an experience of the way Mother Teresa transcends all political, religious and social barriers with her works of love.
After the making of her documentary, Jan served Mother Teresa in a close capacity for ten years, until her passing. Jan is an Emmy award-winning producer/director and has been a guest speaker at Columbia Business School. She is a warm and compelling messenger for the principles that Mother Teresa lived by.
Thank you for sharing! Such a blessing for the week and so much to incorporate into who we are.Anna Pavlick
Thank you Hitendra for bringing this dimension to self-development from Mother Teresa.Rukaiya Joshi
Thank you very much. The last hour was love in action!Deepak Gujjar
In this episode of Intersections, Prof. Hitendra Wadhwa has a conversation with Jeanette Petrie on the topic “Mother Teresa: A Model of Leadership for Turbulent Times”.
How can the life and leadership of Mother Teresa inspire and guide us, especially in this moment of crisis? She set up an organization that is doing remarkable service to the poor and the destitute in over 130 countries. For this she won the Nobel Peace Prize, was recognized by Time Magazine as one of the 100 people in history who changed the world, was voted the most admired person of the 20th century by Americans in a 1999 Gallup Poll, and became a saint in record time in modern history.
The episode “Mother Teresa: A Model of Leadership for Turbulent Times” offers key insights on:
Hello, everyone. A warm welcome to you from Intersections, where inner mastery meets outer impacts. It's been a week since we were last together. I want to take a minute just to recall what it is that we have done last time and then preview for us what we are going to do in this hour together. In our conversation last time, we'd spoken about the power of your personal journey, the power of looking through the experiences we've had in life, imbuing them with a certain meaning, weaving a certain narrative thread through them and coming up with insights and redeem possibilities in all and everything that we have gone through so that we become, on an ongoing basis, the dynamic authors of our own life story and we are also able to inspire and guide others through the power of storytelling. I also invited you to join us in actually contributing to this personal journey project. So that was about personal journeys. We're going to come back and we'll do more work around personal journeys in the weeks and months ahead.
For today, I have the privilege of getting us to connect with one of the most powerful journeys. What I do in my study and my work is to, in fact, study these great figures from history. Some time back, I encountered the work and life of Mother Teresa. I realized, after getting a glimpse into her work, how incredibly not just inspiring, but instructive in a very practical way, her story is, both for life and for leadership. Now, let's start just with the basics about who we are talking about here.
Mother Teresa is one of the most remarkably recognized figures in modern history. In 1999, in a Gallup poll, she was voted as the most admired person of the last 100 years as the century was coming to an end. In America, she was nominated by Time magazine as one of the 100 people through history who have changed the world. She won the Nobel Prize in peace. She started an organization from scratch and she built it to have a vibrant presence in 130 countries with 4500 very devoted nuns in those Missionaries of Charity. Today, we have the opportunity to also gain our own inspiration and guidance from this world changing figure. We're going to get this through one of the most wonderful spirits that I have had the privilege and pleasure of knowing. That is Jeanette Petrie. Jan is an Emmy Award winning producer and was privileged to make a documentary on the life of Mother Teresa.
Soon into our conversation, I'm going to ask Jan to explain a certain project that has been a devoted part of her life for the last several years called Mother Teresa: Love in Action. On that note, it is a distinct pleasure for me to invite into our midst, Jan Petrie. Jan, warm welcome.
Thank you, Hitendra. That was quite a nice, lovely welcome. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
Jan, I've known you for some time now and I want the audience to take away from our conversation the spirit of Mother Teresa and the spirit of how you have absorbed and connected with her energy. So, we're all in for a big treat. Again, big warm welcome to you Jan.
Thank you.
I want to start by having us think about the relevance of a figure like this in today's time. We are going through such a tectonic period of tumult and turbulence. Many of us are seeking and wanting to do good, to do good in our communities, to do good at work, to do good in our families. But it also gets very overwhelming when you think about the scale and scope of that task. If Mother Teresa was with us here today, how would she have faced this challenge?
Well, that's a good question. In my experience of Mother, she always began where she was. She was very fond of saying all sorts of small things with great love. See what you can do and start doing. Her start line was always right now at the present. In other words, she just looked in the present to see what was wanted and needed and that's what she did.
There's a lot of power to that, I remember there was a quote from her once where she said something like, "I like to be like a stone that you're going to throw into the lake where all these ripples happen."
She used to say, "Maybe what I do is only a drop in the ocean. But without that work, the ocean would be one less drop." She never measured what she was doing, she did whatever that was in front of her and whatever wanted needed. She used to say, "It's not how much you do, it's how much love you put into doing it". That was something that she lived by. So, whatever she did, she did with great love.
Actually, what she really did was small things that became monumental. She began by feeding one hungry person. She began by picking up one dying person off the street. She didn't have this plan to say, "Let's build an ashram where we will take in thousands of people." She just went and found that one person and began with that one person. All through her life that I witnessed during the 15 years that I spent a great deal of time with her, it was always that one single thing.
I want to unpack that a little bit, because there are some profound implications of what you just said in not just life, but in leadership. So, are you saying that she would not be driven by some kind of a three, five or a 10-year plan of growth with metrics and projects?
Yeah. I kind of think that she defied every business plan and all the basis of how one sets out their life. First and foremost, she was a Roman Catholic nun. So, she lived by her vows. That was one aspect of her life. Then within that life, there is what you call an apostolate. What that means is what kind of work are you going to do? How do you live out those vows? For her, it was to serve the poorest of the poor. It began very small in Calcutta. Then that work just grew. It grew and it just drew attention. She never once in her life ever called a press conference. She never ever had a bio that she sent out. She just did it and it drew attention. One person began looking and said, "What are you doing?" And they said, "I'll help you." The first girls who joined her were her students when she was a former teacher.
In terms of leadership, Mother had one primary common denominator. She led by example. She did the doing and it glued people.
To close that topic out, because I just find it so striking, perhaps in the early stages of her work where you got to know her at a certain phase, and also from the stories you've heard about her path and from what you have seen the work grow during your time there, are you saying that she wasn't painting an ambitious vision of the aspirations that she had for growth and achieving a certain goals or missions like we have in not only today's businesses, but even in the world of social enterprise and social impact and in business schools and other universities?
I never saw that. I have traveled to dozens of countries as a part of her beginning formations in many parts of the world generally where there was great suffering and difficulty. When she went, she looked to see what was wanted and needed, who is taking care of the old people? Who's taking care of the unwanted? Who's taking care of the handicapped? She always began small. There were homes that she operated and they continue today as well. With the soup kitchen, she started feeding like whoever could come, 10, 12, 15 people and pretty soon it was hundreds, pretty soon it was thousands, pretty soon it was hundreds of thousands. But it was never her plan. She just did.
What was so remarkable and so amazing about her was she never wanted the attention. She never tried to attract attention. She just did the work and she did it with so much love, that's what drew the attention and people came and wanted to be a part of that.
It is beautiful! This conversation is called intersections, because I just love to find paradoxes in life and leadership. One of the paradoxes that we have established here is to think about all those luminous achievements that I was talking about the Nobel Prize, Time 100 and the Gallup poll but she was never even attracted to those things, and she was never even invested in those things, which is really powerful. Jan, if I have your permission, can I just have us take a couple of minutes to bring her to life a little bit. I know you have incredible film footage about Mother Teresa and you've been privileged to build with her.
Mother didn't use big words. She didn't give grand speeches. She only spoke very simply. I often used to say, she spoke in prime numbers, indivisible, very straight, just straight from the heart and it just disarmed people. Also, she never had any agenda. There were never other agendas governing her. It was completely to help this person, to be with that one, to do this.
The remarkable thing about her is that her appeal and her being transcended in all social, political and religious boundaries. She would say Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Communists and Jew, every single man, woman and child is a child of God, created to love and to be loved. That's how she saw everybody as a child of God. She didn't see our differences; she didn't see our divisions and people just responded to that.
Jan, let's explore that a little bit more. We're living in a world which is almost like opposing forces. On one hand there is a sense of inclusive unity with the dissolving of geographic and national boundaries and things. Yet, on the other hand, there are these big divisions that are rife right now within a nation, let's say the United States, let alone, across national boundaries. When I think of Mother Teresa, she was a devout Catholic and you say that she said, "every Hindu and Muslim, Christian, Jew" are you able to share stories or examples in a very concrete way of how she really had this very expansive heart?
Well, to her, every single person was a child of God. If Mother was here now, this is so relevant to how she lived. Because right now we all find ourselves in this commonality. We are all kind of sheltering in a place because of Covid instead of doing something where the whole world has had this common experience, but Mother lived every day that way. So, when I go out, I expect to see everybody in a mask and gloves. But when Mother went out, she just saw the same always in everyone. She saw a child of God and people responded to that.
There's a story which I have shared with you before. I have been to many countries with her, and very often somebody would say, "Oh Mother, you look like my mother, oh Mother, you look like my grandmother, oh Mother, you look like this." And it was so funny we'd be in the most bizarre countries and people would say that. So, one day we were going into Vietnam and we were in Vietnam and there were children who were victims of Agent Orange. They were handicapped. There was a need. So, Mother was looking to provide a home for these children.
We had to deal with this Communist General in Hanoi and everyone said he was really tough. "Mother, you're going to have a hard time dealing with him. He's not going to go along with this. He wants them to stay in the state governed, state operated institution". So, I said, "Well, Mother, at least here in Vietnam, nobody's going to say you look like their mother just for the obvious physical reasons." So anyhow, we go into this small room and in comes this young, actually very attractive General, he was probably about 40 years old and we expected a much older person. He came in, kind of very serious and tough and he looked at Mother and he says, "Oh, Mother, you look like my grandmother." I couldn't believe it because there was no way she could look like that.
Mother said, "Very good, then you have to help your grandmother, and this is what Mother wants". There we went and there she got it. I didn't really realize it then, I just laughed at the moment. But I realized that Mother wasn't really looking like these people. But I think his grandmother looked at him with love in her eyes. I think when you look at someone you love, that child feels that love. I think that's what he was responding to. It came to me, that's what everybody was responding to. She really did look for that. The love that she emanated, that's what people were responding to.
Oh, I get goosebumps every time I hear that story. It's just so powerful. It was making me also think about having to go out with masks today, in some ways it really curtails the human-to-human experience and the human to human touch and yet, on the other hand, when you think about what you just said, there was so much love that was pouring forth from her eyes. Maybe we should take hope and see possibilities even temporarily in a masked social environment to let love fall out from our eyes, because the eye-to-eye contact is still there.
We're all stuck at home. This reminds me that Mother had a go to song. She didn't have many topics. We used to say she was a Johnny one note, because she lived by and continued to say and share the same things. What she would say, "Love begins at home and you cannot give what you do not have". So, she would always say, "Begin in your own family, love them. Sometimes the poorest of the poor are right in your own family."
She often would say this too, particularly of the West, she'd say, "You give somebody a piece of bread and it's easier to feed them to meet that hunger". But she said the greatest poverty and the greatest hunger is to feel unwanted, to feel unloved and she said that is the greatest poverty of the West. So many people feel thrown away, abandoned, unwanted, unloved.
Mother would say "At this moment, if there's nothing else we can do, we can express our love to someone in our home, in our neighborhood, in our community, the person you pass in the elevator with the mask. Just something". So, I think that's very typical of Mother.
It is beautiful. I think one lesson I'm drawing from is not to worry about the scale at which you are loving, but about the quality of loving that you're bringing to every moment, is that fair?
She lived completely in the present. At the time of her death, she had homes in more than 125 countries and many of the worst spots in the world where there was famine, starvation, war, revolution. So, her aim was always to take care of those people who have no one and nothing. Those were her people. She didn't call them the poor. She called them our people. She cleaned up. She says, "Let us find our people". That's how they felt love.
When they presented her with the award before her speech, they presented it and said, there are many people who do wonderful things in the world. There are many people who are doing wonderful charitable acts. But Mother was presented the Nobel Peace Prize because she served the poor in such a way that she elevated their dignity. The dignity of the poor was elevated by her work and her sharing.
There's a terrible expression called "cold as charity" and what Mother did was when she gave something to somebody, she wasn't just giving them a piece of bread, she was loving them, and they felt that. Then they rose, they became someone. When you're loved, you are somebody.
When we talk about Love In Action, we're not talking about her Love In Action, it's about God's love in action. Because she always said, "God loves the world through you and through me".
Ah! So beautiful! Jan, if I can maybe invite you to turn our attention towards the qualities of Mother Teresa as a leader. We've seen a lot of powerful human qualities in her from what you've shared. It's just such an exemplar of love. We have seen such powerful qualities of her as a saint, as an institution builder, as the inspiration and guide of a movement, as a people manager, all those things we think about as leadership. What are the very distinctive things that people who are aspiring to be great leaders could take away from her story?
Very simply, Mother led by example, and she walked the walk and talked the talk. There was no second side to her. Anything she said, she did. Even a simple thing like, in the convent, they get up at 4:40 in the morning, she was the first one up. If they had to be at a certain place at a certain time, she was the first one there. She simply led by example, always.
We were in this one country, there was a revolution that turned out to be a coup d'état. The country was in shambles within Eastern Europe. Mother was invited in and we went in and the place was just unbelievable. There was rioting in the streets, there were some handicapped children that no one was taking care of, and Mother wanted to take these children.
Anyhow, Mother just went in, saw the problem. See, she was so clear, there was no other agenda other than to serve those poorest of the poor. So, when she went in, got these children and we came out. Two days afterwards, the acting minister of health came into the room and he was just mesmerized by what had just happened, what he had witnessed. She had gone into this home. She picked up these children. She organized buses. She brought them in. We had to go to an old gymnastic field to bring these children. We took this old dormitory. She didn't wait for a great building. She didn't wait to have cribs. She says, "No, we'll take these children now". We took them out. We put them on blankets and then everything began to come and put together. She didn't wait for the right circumstances. She acted and the circumstances built around instantly.
The acting minister of health said, "Mother, from where do you get your power?" and Mother looked at him and said, "I get it from him." She said, "I'm only a little pencil in his hand." So, Mother was all about serving. She took those, those words that you heard, "I was hungry, give me to eat, I was naked." So. wherever she was in the world, that's what she was doing.
Jan, one thing I noticed is that even when she was serving in very inclement conditions in terms of physical and other forms of deprivation that the underprivileged that she was really holding to such a high pedestal and serving with such respect, she was infused with love and with joy. This notion that you're doing some of the hardest work but you're not letting it pull you down to the point where you feel so much awkwardness and discomfort with the pain of the people that you're serving, instead, you are in fact infused with joy. It almost seems like a contradiction. Can you speak to that?
Well, there are like two things. I can give you a couple of examples because you have to remember what Mother said once we were in Moscow and they said, "Oh, Mother Teresa, we are the same. We are communists and socialists and what you are doing is similar.". Mother says "No, yeah, but not exactly the same. You are doing something for somebody. We are doing it to somebody." She goes back to the gospels where Christ had said, I was hungry, you gave me to eat, I was naked, you clothed me. Whatever you do to the least of my brother and you do to me.
So Mother was a woman in love. She was like an 18 year old girl in love. When you love somebody, you have that joy. You're serving that person whom you love and her love was Christ. God. So everything else was secondary. It was all what she was doing. Full stop.
But what was unique about her, in her service, is that she didn't divide. For example, she would often say, "I love all religions, but I'm in love with my own." She just didn't see divisions.
When we were in Beirut, the war was going on, bombs were going on. In West Beirut at the time, bombings were taking place. There was no food, there was no water. There was everything in the east. There was a divided wall. Mother went in, found out that there were some Palestinian children who had been abandoned and they were handicapped. There was no food, no supplies. So we had this meeting and mother met with all the officials and for whatever reason they came, they came to her.
She said, "Now, I want to go and take these children." Maybe there were a dozen and these were forgotten children. People are looking at the big picture. But her work was a small picture. She went in, they risked lives. They said, "Mother, they're killing quite a few people." She says, "I'll figure out. We have to go in and begin." But there were bombs. She said, "No, I'm praying, I'm asking for a cease fire." All people looked at her like she was mad and actually she had this libido going and on that day, there was a cease fire and Mother did go in and she picked up these children.
She wanted to open a home there, but the head of the United Nations said, "Mother, you're just going to become part of the problem because there's no supplies." So she said, "OK, we'll bring those children to the east." Now, these are Muslim children that she wanted to take care of and bring into a Christian sector in East Beirut. And so we did. What she did is, she brought in these handicapped, abandoned Muslim children, brought them into the east and she had these Christian ladies come in and help take care of the day care of it and then she called the Israeli doctors who were bombing that side to come in and help take care of these children.
The press, who were always the soreness for her because she never wanted publicity. When they came in, they wanted to take pictures, Mother said, "You know, we need nappies and we need milk." So, here was everybody who was at war, all coming together to help a dozen of children who were completely helpless and everybody was sharing that love. There was just no division. That was very typical of everything she did.
How beautiful! Thank you so much for such an evocative picture that you just shared with us. I know this is also there in your film. So, I encourage all of us to really get this film when shipments are starting to come back to your homes. I know it's available on Amazon.
Jan, if you would take that film that you made on her, the first of the two, in particular, there are so many instances in that film of these small little moments, in the day where she is doing things which are not necessarily incredibly royal or massive in a scale, but she is doing them with such presence, such love and such grace. So, I really want to encourage everyone to take that film and watch it.
Jan, are you open to sharing one of the treasure chests of personal stories you have about how she changed you?
In the very beginning when my sister and I started, we met Mother because of my brother, who was a priest in India doing leprosy work. My sister and I went to India and made a short film with David Susskind. A couple of years later, we decided to do this major film because we chose the most widely recognized and most awarded woman in the world, but nobody really knew her story. Nobody really knew who she was. So, we set out to make this fabulous story. I thought it would take about a year and it ended up to be about a 30-year process.
In the beginning, we were in the convent and we weren't nuns. We were there to make a film and we didn't even want to mention God. We had all professional, Academy award winning crews. I was in this room with Mother and knowing that we would be spending time together, I said to Mother, "Mother, I'd like to say something." and Mother says "What is that". I said, "Mother, I smoke". At that time, I did. It seemed to be a metaphor for so much more. Mother looked at me and she got up and left the room. I thought, "Oh, wow, I'm toast." I was very proud of myself. I thought, well, I was very upfront. I was direct. I was going to be who I am.
About two minutes later, the curtain opened and outcomes Mother. She was carrying this little saucer. She came up to me and she said, "Jan, would this be all right? An ashtray." I just melted. I just went down to the floor, I could hardly lift my eyes, and I said, "Yes, Mother, that would be fine." To date that moment is so present to me.
That just personified everything in her, the reverence she had for everyone. There was no judgment, there was just only love. Sometime later, I completely stopped smoking. That was one little experience that impacted.
Just want to share one other thing. When my sister and I were making this film, we said, "Well, let's not mention God. We have this dynamic, wonderful person who is really doing incredible things in the world, Nobel Prize winner, let's just capture everything, but not mention God." In a year of editing, it just was not coming together. We had the most compelling footage. We had the most compelling elements, but it just wasn't coming together. Then we realized it's a lie. What was the lie? The lie was you could not separate Mother Teresa from God. Because everything she did, everything she said, what drove her, what motivated her was God. So we just got out of the way and once we got that, everything came together. People talk about proselytizing but it has never been her thing. She just does and when she does, it attracts. But that's her source.
One guy came to Calcutta and she brought them to the children's home. They have a home for the mentally handicapped and then she took them to the soup kitchen where they were feeding people. He said, "You know, Mother, this work you're doing, I couldn't do it if you paid me a million dollars." Mother looked at him and said, "And neither could I." That was her love of God and she was loving people through that.
Jan, talk to us a little bit about the continuation of your work with her. You made this film. You ended up going beyond the film to serve her during her own physical presence here and then what have you been doing in the decade since?
The short answer is, first of all, it took five years for my sister and I to make this film. The film ended up winning a lot of awards. After we won the Soviet Peace Prize, our film actually brought Mother Teresa. After following her over 5 years and 24 locations and 5 continents and 10 countries, I said, "Mother, now you're with us." The film actually helped to bring her into the Soviet Union. And then Mother was awarded the Soviet Peace Prize as well. Afterwards, we were finished and I thought it was done. She wanted to go back to Moscow. She said, "Are you able to come?" I said, "Yes". That continued for 10 years.
In that period of time she was going into mostly these countries with terrible war situations, horrific environments and situations, I began just to help her. It was a slow thing for me as well. This was something very sacred and precious. We had about 250 hours of content in the media which nobody has seen. Also, we had many offers to sell 2 minutes, 3 minutes. We thought, this is something really sacred here. This is something that we have to keep for posterity, because it's one of the first times in history that we have a kind of a witness to listen in here. A saint in their own words. We kept this collection and now we're working on something that's called Mother Teresa: Love In Action. We are taking this collection and putting it into the highest digital format, so its future forward and creating multimedia, interactive archives that gives you all of the information of the who, what, why, where, when. So, for future generations, they'll have this. Our goal is to protect the integrity and authenticity of her words and actions and make them available for future generations. It's a precious gift for the future. That's our little offering.
Mother used to say and I'll leave you with this. It didn't matter if you were president or prime minister or king or whatever it was, she said the same word. She used to say, "You know what you can do, I cannot do. And what I can do, you cannot do. But together, we can do something beautiful for God."
Oh, that's beautiful! There were a couple of questions that people were asking about whether the film can be available in more of a digital form for people to access online. Can you just talk about what can our audience expect in terms of getting access to some of this priceless film that you have developed.
Thank you. We're at petrieproductions.com. We are in the process now of hopefully rereleasing the films. We're making inquiries right now to rerelease the films. We are working hard. It's a costly project. Funding is always an issue as we don't fundraise. Mother, never ever fundraised. We never saw anybody say send money and we honor that. We don't do that either. It's been a long and arduous process. Mother used to have this wonderful expression, "Don't worry, God, it's not going to go bankrupt." We just keep with that.
Right now, the films are available on Amazon, they come by mail and hopefully we will have it available in a digital format for downloads and within the near future. Love In Action will come to fruition and people will be able to have access to these priceless words and thoughts of Mother Teresa.
It's beautiful. You mentioned that she did not fundraise and what you're saying from that is that it wasn't publicly communicated or solicited, but if anybody wanted to off their own heart offer up some funds to support the work, can they do that?
Absolutely. What was interesting is, she was so amazing. In the beginning, they did fund raising like any organization because co-workers came in and they said, "Oh, Mother Teresa, you have to do this. You have to do this." And she started. But then Mother stopped for many reasons. One is that co-workers would come in, they would have meetings, and it would be about who's giving the money and so on. So there was division. Mother said, "Stop, I never want money given at meetings. I don't want it." Then all of a sudden, she said no more fundraising whatsoever. None.
When she stopped the fund raising, more funds began coming in. It was just unbelievable. That's how she worked. I used to get telexes. Those days we had telexes instead of emails. I used to say to Mother, "Mother, are you getting a telex," meaning whatever inspiration she was getting through prayer. That's what she did. A unique policy.
Jan, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for really helping us break into some new ground by bringing to life such a powerful figure in modern history. You talk about her as a great saint. I was privileged through your invitation to be at the place where she was canonized and I remember just feeling so incredibly struck from what I knew from the recent history that she was made a saint in record time in modern history. But the other thing which is very unique is that in loving contrast to some of the other recent acts of canonization, she represented a figure that was so universal in terms of the appeal, it was like a celebration that you saw happen around the globe. With everything that you shared, it is just incredible how in that selfless way, in that small and humble way with all the serving that she was doing, that she ended up really showing the world the incredible power of that kind of inner force, that inner charisma, the operating from the inner core.
Can I extract a commitment from you to join us again in a future episode? Because I just see this as the end of the beginning and not anything more than that in our conversations with you about such a beautiful figure.
Thank you. I hope there's more to share about our project Love In Action. We invite anybody who is interested in that to write to you, write to us, and we will keep you posted as to how that is progressing. Thank you and it's been a great pleasure to be here with you and to share with the students. It's always a pleasure at Columbia Business School and the retreat weekends. This is a new format. So thank you very much.
Thank you so much, Jan.
